Handling models ...

[boredphuck]

... not physically. 

i just started trying shooting portraits and is now looking for models both tfcd as well as paid ones. need to seek opinions and advices on this matter.

1. if the model is a tfcd one and u don't think she can meet your expectations, how do you break it to them?
2. somehow u sense the tfcd model is just out to do a shoot for fun n will not put in her commitment to it, would u still shoot her even if she is pretty?
3. what kind of margin do i have for negotiations for paid shoots?
4. would judging by what my company pays agencies for shoots be fair?
5. i had a model up her rates when there are photogs wanted to shoot her. ok. this one quite stupid. just ignore the stupid bitch. 

don't flame me! i am a newbie.

[deadpoet]

1. if the model is a tfcd one and u don't think she can meet your expectations, how do you break it to them?
I will tell the model that I am looking for something different at this time.  Maybe we can work on another project later, if and when that project is being hatched. If she does not get the point, well, too bad for her.

2. somehow u sense the tfcd model is just out to do a shoot for fun n will not put in her commitment to it, would u still shoot her even if she is pretty?
Nope.  I also go out to shoot for fun, but if I am serious about a shoot, then everyone in that project must be serious about their role.  Fun shoot, those are different and will not be something I will organise.

3. what kind of margin do i have for negotiations for paid shoots?

alot of leeway, becasue you can walk away and not shoot.

4. would judging by what my company pays agencies for shoots be fair?

no idea

5. i had a model up her rates when there are photogs wanted to shoot her. ok. this one quite stupid. just ignore the stupid bitch. 
if there is someone buying, then what can you say or do.  Free market.


don't flame me! i am a newbie.
[/quote]

[boredphuck]

my sentiments exactly, master.

u do fun shoots? 

[hwchoy]

he will do anything as long as her hair is not messy.

[Nick]

1. if the model is a tfcd one and u don't think she can meet your expectations, how do you break it to them?

Since a TFCD is beneficial to both parties, you just say you would love to work with her one of these days but at the moment the themes you are seeking are different from what they want.

2. somehow u sense the tfcd model is just out to do a shoot for fun n will not put in her commitment to it, would u still shoot her even if she is pretty?

Fun? Lots of variations of fun . If the model wannabe is not serious through discussions, I will just cancel further discussions.

3. what kind of margin do i have for negotiations for paid shoots?

Plenty. As long as it's nothing offensive to the model or pre-agreed, you are in total control. You can make them wear a bunny suit for all you want.

4. would judging by what my company pays agencies for shoots be fair?

Depends which agencies, there are lots of new one springing up in the market. Run by wannabe models who can't make it and want to run others or self styled pro photographers...

5. i had a model up her rates when there are photogs wanted to shoot her. ok. this one quite stupid. just ignore the stupid bitch. 

Lots of people spoil the market. Some models can't pose for nuts but have the asserts to compensate.

[psychopotato]

You guys really shoot a lot of models! Must be very experienced in handling them...

[boredphuck]

Since a TFCD is beneficial to both parties, you just say you would love to work with her one of these days but at the moment the themes you are seeking are different from what they want.

Fun? Lots of variations of fun . If the model wannabe is not serious through discussions, I will just cancel further discussions.

Plenty. As long as it's nothing offensive to the model or pre-agreed, you are in total control. You can make them wear a bunny suit for all you want.

Depends which agencies, there are lots of new one springing up in the market. Run by wannabe models who can't make it and want to run others or self styled pro photographers...

Lots of people spoil the market. Some models can't pose for nuts but have the asserts to compensate.

1. i guess tats the most diplomatic way.
2. tats the best way.
3. bunny suit!?!?
4. yeah. my friend set up hers. i think cmi.
5. i fully agree.

[Triazolium]

From an experienced model's point of view:

1. if the model is a tfcd one and u don't think she can meet your expectations, how do you break it to them?
Just say, "You're not the kind of model I am looking for.  Thank you for your interest and good luck."  It's a nice way of saying no, you don't need to specify what kind of model you are looking for (it is your business and you are not obligated to tell her unless she asks, and even if she asks, you are not obligated to answer).

2. somehow u sense the tfcd model is just out to do a shoot for fun n will not put in her commitment to it, would u still shoot her even if she is pretty?
See answer to #1.  Or if all you want is a pretty face or if you are super-nice and feel like taking time out to help out a pretty face build a portfolio, then go ahead and say yes.  She's TFCD, after all, so you won't be losing anything but time.

3. what kind of margin do i have for negotiations for paid shoots?
As much as you want.  If you have a low budget, say,"I can only pay you $XX/hr.  Let me know if this is acceptable to you."  If she demands more and you don't think she is worth that much, just say, "$XX/hr is all I can offer you."  If you don't want to pay her at all, move on!  If she demands more and you really want to shoot her, borrow money from your friends.   

4. would judging by what my company pays agencies for shoots be fair?
It depends.  If it's a commercial shoot, usually the pay is higher because the company stands to benefit from it.  If you are shooting for your port, you can pay whatever you want.

5. i had a model up her rates when there are photogs wanted to shoot her. ok. this one quite stupid. just ignore the stupid bitch. 
There are so many ugly and/or inexperienced models demanding pay "because of demand".  It's so ridiculous!  However, some of them are smart to exploit the situation to make a quick buck.  I think rates should be proportional to experience, not to demand, but alas, that is not the way the world works.

Good luck!

[Michael]

3. what kind of margin do i have for negotiations for paid shoots?
It's best you and the model come up with a common agreement of what you both want from this shoot.

4. would judging by what my company pays agencies for shoots be fair?
Company = Commercial = $$$$$$$$.
You = Personal = $.

5. i had a model up her rates when there are photogs wanted to shoot her.
If you think she's worth it and she can do the job you ask of her, then go ahead. If not, search for alternatives.

[boredphuck]

From an experienced model's point of view:

1. if the model is a tfcd one and u don't think she can meet your expectations, how do you break it to them?
Just say, "You're not the kind of model I am looking for.  Thank you for your interest and good luck."  It's a nice way of saying no, you don't need to specify what kind of model you are looking for (it is your business and you are not obligated to tell her unless she asks, and even if she asks, you are not obligated to answer).

2. somehow u sense the tfcd model is just out to do a shoot for fun n will not put in her commitment to it, would u still shoot her even if she is pretty?
See answer to #1.  Or if all you want is a pretty face or if you are super-nice and feel like taking time out to help out a pretty face build a portfolio, then go ahead and say yes.  She's TFCD, after all, so you won't be losing anything but time.

3. what kind of margin do i have for negotiations for paid shoots?
As much as you want.  If you have a low budget, say,"I can only pay you $XX/hr.  Let me know if this is acceptable to you."  If she demands more and you don't think she is worth that much, just say, "$XX/hr is all I can offer you."  If you don't want to pay her at all, move on!  If she demands more and you really want to shoot her, borrow money from your friends.   

4. would judging by what my company pays agencies for shoots be fair?
It depends.  If it's a commercial shoot, usually the pay is higher because the company stands to benefit from it.  If you are shooting for your port, you can pay whatever you want.

5. i had a model up her rates when there are photogs wanted to shoot her. ok. this one quite stupid. just ignore the stupid bitch. 
There are so many ugly and/or inexperienced models demanding pay "because of demand".  It's so ridiculous!  However, some of them are smart to exploit the situation to make a quick buck.  I think rates should be proportional to experience, not to demand, but alas, that is not the way the world works.

Good luck!

thanks for the advice. wish more local models think like u. 

[boredphuck]

3. what kind of margin do i have for negotiations for paid shoots?
It's best you and the model come up with a common agreement of what you both want from this shoot.

4. would judging by what my company pays agencies for shoots be fair?
Company = Commercial = $$$$$$$$.
You = Personal = $.

5. i had a model up her rates when there are photogs wanted to shoot her.
If you think she's worth it and she can do the job you ask of her, then go ahead. If not, search for alternatives.

guess most of us feel the same abt how and what a model shld be and how we shld be treating and reacting.

[CanonGrapher]

thanks for the advice. wish more local models think like u. 

It actually does not have anything to do with being local or overseas.  It has to do with 1) professionalism, 2) integrity and 3) pride.

Anyone who is a flake, lack one of the 3 above, if not all 3.

[Triazolium]

It actually does not have anything to do with being local or overseas.  It has to do with 1) professionalism, 2) integrity and 3) pride.

Anyone who is a flake, lack one of the 3 above, if not all 3.

I have to agree CG, but bp has a point:  Take this for example.  A girl with no modeling experience and no portfolio expects PAID shoots??  I dunno about professionalism and integrity, but they sure do have a lot of PRIDE!  There are a million girls who do this though, all over the world.

[boredphuck]

but the number of non experienced ppl asking for paid shoot is much more overwhelming as compared to overseas where ppl are more than happy to be shot for free.

It actually does not have anything to do with being local or overseas.  It has to do with 1) professionalism, 2) integrity and 3) pride.

Anyone who is a flake, lack one of the 3 above, if not all 3.

[boredphuck]

its the school holidays. we gotta forgive them. 

alot of them get away with murder. and the local hobbyists has to accept part of the responsibility.. 

I have to agree CG, but bp has a point:  Take this for example.  A girl with no modeling experience and no portfolio expects PAID shoots??  I dunno about professionalism and integrity, but they sure do have a lot of PRIDE!  There are a million girls who do this though, all over the world.